THE INTERVIEW
“Nuclear War on Mars, Time Traveling Nazis & The Techno Apocalypse,” Jason Reza Jorjani on the Danny Jones Podcast, published 7 April 2025, running about three hours and thirty-three minutes. Watch on YouTube
What the interview is
Read as a topic list, this is a tour through hollow moons, Martian nuclear war, remote viewing, Nazi flying saucers, Atlantis and Antarctica. Read as an argument, it is one thesis wearing many costumes, and that is the reason to file it.
The thesis is that reality is an engineered information system, a simulation with a built-in ceiling on how much data any civilization can produce, and that the phenomena we call paranormal are the visible seams of that system. Every other thread feeds it. The Moon and Mars material supplies a deep-time backstory. The postwar-Germany material supplies a recent, terrestrial version of the same pattern, a hidden power operating above ordinary humanity. The comparative mythology supplies the claim that this has been going on all along and was encoded in scripture and legend.
This note does not argue with the thesis. It sorts the interview by what each part rests on, because the interview itself does not: the register changes constantly and the tone never does.
Who Jason Reza Jorjani is
Jorjani holds a PhD in philosophy from Stony Brook University and taught Science, Technology and Society, Heidegger, and the history of Iran at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. His first book, Prometheus and Atlas (2016), won the Parapsychological Association’s annual book award. He now describes himself as banned from academia. The books he is promoting here are Satanaeon (2024), which carries most of the simulation material, and Metapolemos (2025).
He already appears on this site. His 2021 book Closer Encounters has a signed review here, and that review covers the book’s arguments, above all its political theory. This page is a different object: a neutral note on what he says in one long interview, and on where the sourcing sits.
The spine, an engineered simulation with a ceiling
Jorjani’s central move is to try to make simulation theory physical rather than philosophical.
He begins from Claude Shannon’s information theory and Landauer’s principle (1961), which holds that erasing one bit of information carries an unavoidable minimum thermodynamic cost. Combining that with mass-energy equivalence, he argues that stored information must therefore have a small physical mass. He then reaches for John Archibald Wheeler’s “it from bit”, the proposal that information may be a third fundamental category alongside matter and energy, with physical reality rendered from it. He reads the double-slit experiment as rendering optimisation, the way a game engine does not draw what nobody is observing. And he cites the physicist Melvin Vopson’s published mass-energy-information equivalence and “information catastrophe” hypothesis as a mechanism by which accumulating data could have measurable physical effects.
On top of that he builds his own conclusions: that the unseen mass of stored data simply is cosmological dark matter; that at a 25 percent annual growth rate the world’s stored information will equal the mass of the Moon in roughly 340 years and the mass of the Earth about twenty years after that; that server farms will become gravity wells; and that the simulation contains an engineered cap preventing any civilization from passing roughly Kardashev Type II, which he offers as a resolution of the Fermi paradox.
The chain is ingenious. It is also where the register changes without warning, and the next two sections are why this page exists.
What is not in dispute
Several of his launchpads are ordinary science and documented history, and it is worth being clear about that before anything else.
Landauer’s principle is real, accepted physics. Wheeler’s “it from bit” is a real proposal by a major physicist. The 1970s evidence for dark matter, from galaxy rotation curves and gravitational lensing, is real. Vopson’s hypotheses are genuinely published, though published is not the same as established, and they are not established. The Apollo 12 and 13 seismic result, in which the Moon “rang” after spent stages were deliberately crashed into it, is a real documented phenomenon described by NASA scientists at the time. The Moon’s coincidence of apparent size and distance that produces total eclipses is a real astronomical fact. The SRI and Stargate remote-viewing programmes really existed. John Brandenburg is a real plasma physicist who really worked at Sandia National Laboratories. Gary Nolan’s brain-imaging research on people reporting anomalous experiences is real. Operation Paperclip, the National Security Act of 1947, and Henry Ford’s antisemitism and circulation of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are documented history.
None of this establishes the thesis. All of it is where the thesis starts.
What is contested, and by whom
A second layer is fringe or contested rather than accepted, and Jorjani can cite chapter and verse for each because each has real proponents and real texts behind it.
Brandenburg’s thesis that a nuclear war destroyed a civilization on Mars, argued from a Xenon-129 isotope anomaly concentrated at Cydonia, is published and is rejected by mainstream planetary science, which finds no craters or physical remnants and prefers ordinary explanations for the isotope ratio. Philip Corso’s claim in The Day After Roswell that recovered material yielded Velcro, Kevlar and night vision is contradicted by the well-documented conventional origins of all three. Charles Hapgood’s crustal-displacement theory, used to place Atlantis in a pre-shift Antarctica, is not accepted by geologists, who explain the same data through plate tectonics. The Nazi Bell, the hollow Moon, and the 1955 electrogravitics claim sit in the same category.
The deep-time layer
The Moon and Mars material runs on remote-viewing testimony rather than instruments, and Jorjani presents it as such.
He relays Ingo Swann’s account, from Swann’s book Penetration, of viewing a lunar city with obelisks and dome structures, including a passage on people used as labour under tall “Nordic” overseers. He relays Joe McMoneagle’s 1984 Stargate session, tasked blind against what Jorjani says were the Viking probe’s Cydonia images, in which McMoneagle described a ruined megalithic city and then, directed further back, tall people in skintight suits facing the death of their world. He connects these to Brandenburg’s isotope work and concludes that the Moon was built by Mars survivors as a transport ark and a terraforming engine, citing the Moon’s orbital stability and the eclipse coincidence as signs of internal machinery. He floats that the impact which ended the dinosaurs may have been deliberate.
Danny Jones supplies the one counterweight in the room, noting that former Army remote viewer David Morehouse says he viewed the Moon and found nothing.
The terrestrial layer, and where it meets this site
The longest continuous stretch argues that the modern national-security state is a Nazi survival, running through Paperclip, the 1947 National Security Act, Hans Kammler’s Prague think tank, the Horten brothers, and the mercury-thorium Bell.
One claim in it lands directly on work already published here. Jorjani states that the United States “cracked gravity circa 1955” through Thomas Townsend Brown’s electrogravitics, and that this solved the same engineering problem a Nazi programme had solved in 1944. That is the same load-bearing claim, from a different author and a different direction, that Paul LaViolette’s Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion makes, and this site has built a working bench for it. The Electrogravitics instrument computes both readings of Brown’s devices, ion wind and a real charge-to-gravity coupling, off the same controls, and lets a reader pump the chamber down to the pressure where the two must separate. It also keeps on screen the vacuum null that LaViolette himself printed in his own chapter 12.
The interview does not engage that experiment, and nothing in it is offered as measurement. The 1955 claim rests on reading the disappearance of electrogravitics from the open literature at the end of the 1950s as classification.
What the record contradicts
A small number of statements are not merely unproven but contradicted by the documentary record, and they are stated in the same calm register as everything else.
Jorjani says Martin Bormann survived the war and cleared a Chase cheque from Argentina in 1975. Bormann’s death in Berlin in 1945 was confirmed by DNA testing in 1998. He says Hitler survived into the 1960s in Argentina; there is no credible evidence for this. He says returning Apollo astronauts were subjected to memory-wiping; no evidence supports it. He reads the Chase logo as a swastika, which is a visual impression rather than a documented fact.
Two further items require care because they concern named real people. Jorjani states his suspicion that Sergeant Carl Wolf, the 1965 Moon-photograph witness, and the Harvard psychiatrist John Mack were both deliberately killed. He is explicit that this is his suspicion. Both deaths have documented ordinary causes, accidental in Wolf’s case and in Mack’s a road collision, and no evidence of foul play has been produced in either. This note records the claim as what it is, an unsupported suspicion about the deaths of real individuals, and goes no further with it.
These are the entries that make the best reliability test in the interview. A reader who checks the Bormann claim learns how to weigh the surrounding material.
The undertow
A substantial share of the running time reconstructs German and “Nordic” technological, biological and psychic prowess, endorses Carl Jung’s view that different races carry different collective unconsciouses, and treats postwar Nazi networks as the hidden authors of modern power. Across that material the Nazis are consistently the competent, advanced party. Jorjani was briefly a founding figure of the Alt-Right Corporation alongside Richard Spencer in 2016 and 2017 and resigned in August 2017; he describes himself as an anti-racist cosmopolitan who joined in order to steer the movement away from white identity politics, and reporting on him has instead characterised him as an Aryanist, a characterisation he disputes.
This site does not adjudicate that dispute. It records that the racial and Germanophile framing is a real and recurring feature of this interview rather than an incidental one, that it goes unchallenged in the room, and that a reader is entitled to weigh it alongside the claims it sits next to. The signed review of Closer Encounters elsewhere on this site addresses the book’s arguments and does not take up this question; this note does, because in this interview the material is present at length.
What the interview says
It records that a credentialed philosopher, working from real physics and real declassified programmes, has assembled a single unfalsifiable system and is presenting it to a large audience. It records the specific shape of that system, which is unusual in the field for rejecting the extraterrestrial hypothesis: Jorjani argues there is no hard evidence of visitors from outside the solar system, that the entities apparently in charge look human, and that “gray” figures are humanoid robots. Of everything here, that is the most defensible contrarian position, because it turns the burden of proof back on an assumption the subject rarely examines.
It also records, usefully, one author’s own account of how the suppression genre assembles itself, with the 1950s electrogravitics silence doing the same structural work it does in LaViolette.
What it does not show
That information mass and dark matter are the same thing. Landauer’s principle constrains the energy cost of erasure; it does not license the identity claim, which is Jorjani’s alone.
That the data-mass countdown is a physical prediction. The 340-year and Earth-mass figures come from his own extrapolation of a chosen growth rate, and nothing in the interview makes them testable.
That the Moon is artificial, that a nuclear war occurred on Mars, or that any craft was ever built from a charge-to-gravity coupling. The lunar seismic ringing is real and its hollow-and-artificial reading is not the mainstream one; Brandenburg’s thesis is published and rejected; the 1955 claim rests on an inference from an absence in the literature.
That the interview was tested. There is essentially no adversarial pressure in the room. Danny Jones is a capable and curious host whose role here is to amplify and react, so no claim is asked for its counter-evidence, and mainstream rebuttals to the contested researchers are simply absent from the conversation.
From the record
“Not only are we living in a simulation, we’re living in a simulation with a computational ceiling, meaning that it’s inbuilt that we cannot exceed a certain level of data production.”
Jorjani, on his central thesis
“Dark matter, right? That’s what’s inside your computer. Information is dark matter. It’s the same thing.”
Jorjani, on the identity claim that is his own
“In something like 340 years the amount of information that will exist in the world at the current rate of data production will equal the mass of the moon.”
Jorjani, on the countdown
“The conclusion that emerges is that the moon was constructed by these survivors of some kind of apocalypse on Mars.”
Jorjani, on the deep-time layer
“Those are not aliens. Those are humans who are up to no good and have very advanced technology.”
Jorjani, rejecting the extraterrestrial hypothesis
“There’s your electrogravitic saucer invented in Nazi Germany 1944. We cracked the same engineering problem in 1955.”
Jorjani, on the claim this site has a bench for
Note on quotes: the episode is published without an official transcript, and the wording above is taken from cleaned automatic captions. Phrasing should be confirmed against the audio before being quoted anywhere it matters; timestamps in circulation for this episode are approximate.
Where the case connects
The 1955 electrogravitics claim is the live link. The Electrogravitics instrument on this site rebuilds Townsend Brown’s bench as a drivable experiment with one decisive dial, and the source note on LaViolette’s Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion walks the book that makes the same case at length. Reading the two authors together is instructive: they arrive at the same 1955 conclusion by different routes, and neither route passes through an instrumented vacuum measurement that survived replication.
The simulation material sits beside two other pages here. The Rendering Engine instrument builds the game engine that the “only render what is observed” reading leans on, and tags every rung of the analogy as engine, physics or reading. The signed review of Rizwan Virk’s The Simulation Hypothesis covers a much gentler version of the same argument.
The remote-viewing material connects to the Stargate and SRI programmes already in the wiki, and Ingo Swann’s lunar account is the source Jorjani leans on hardest for the Moon.
The interview leaves its own threads. Jorjani says he spent days with Brandenburg in New Mexico, and no record of that work appears beyond his account. The claimed CIA officer who contacted him after reading Closer Encounters is unnamed and uncheckable. And a second, earlier appearance on the same show, from July 2024, carries the autobiographical material this note does not cover; it is not filed here.
Watch the interview. Decide for yourself.
Related wiki entries
- Jason Reza Jorjani
- Electrogravitics
- Thomas Townsend Brown
- Biefeld-Brown Effect
- Die Glocke
- Breakaway Civilization
- Ingo Swann
- Remote Viewing
- Stargate Program
References and further reading
- “Nuclear War on Mars, Time Traveling Nazis & The Techno Apocalypse,” Jason Reza Jorjani, Danny Jones Podcast, 7 April 2025. youtube.com/watch?v=N8ishaUps9E
- Jorjani, J. R., Satanaeon (2024) and Metapolemos (2025), the books discussed in the interview
- Landauer, R. (1961), “Irreversibility and heat generation in the computing process,” IBM Journal of Research and Development 5:183
- Wheeler, J. A. (1990), “Information, physics, quantum: the search for links”
- Vopson, M. M. (2019), “The mass-energy-information equivalence principle,” AIP Advances 9:095206
- Brandenburg, J. E., the Mars isotope papers, and the mainstream planetary-science response
- Identification of Martin Bormann’s remains by DNA analysis, Federal Republic of Germany, 1998
- Signals from the Periphery, the signed review of Closer Encounters, and the source note on LaViolette’s Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion